LSB#: 120405CJ01 Make: Alpine/National Ordinance Model: M1 Carbine Serial Number: 300849 Year of Manufacture: Early To Mid 1960s, But We Cannot Date this Carbine to Pre 1962. Modern Caliber:.30 M1 Carbine Action Type: Semi-Auto, Magazine Fed. No Magazines are provided with this rifle.
Markings: The top of the receiver ring is marked “U.S. Carbine / Cal.
The receiver under the rear sight is marked “Alpine”. The left side of the receiver is marked “300849”. The accessory lug is marked “EMQ”, and the front sight is marked “EU”.
The rear sight is marked “PI”. The front barrel band is marked “MMQ”. Barrel Length: 18” Sights / Optics: This carbine is mounted with standard military style sights. The front sight is a protected post and the rear sight is both elevation and windage adjustable. Stock Configuration & Condition: The stocks are plain wood. The bottom of the stock shows a 6” crack ahead of the magazine well, and a chip missing where the screw comes down behind the trigger guard. There are otherwise just a few nicks dings and scratches.
It uses a National Ordnance receiver & a National Ordnance barrel with a bright bore. This National Ordnance M1 Carbine was built with a ton of USGI parts including a stock that still has Arsenal Rebuild markings from the Anniston Arsenal stamped on it. This is a Fine M1 Carbine. It uses a National Ordnance receiver & a National Ordnance barrel with a bright bore. This National Ordnance M1 Carbine was built with a ton of USGI parts including a stock that still has Arsenal Rebuild markings from the Anniston Arsenal stamped on it. This is a Fine M1 Carbine.
The LOP measures approx. 13” from the front of the trigger to the back of the metal buttplate. The stocks rate in about Good servicable overall condition. Type of Finish: Blue Finish Originality: Original Bore Condition: The bore is bright and the rifling is a bit shallow. There is no apparent erosion and just a little fouling.
Overall Condition: This carbine retains about 60% of its metal finish. The balance of the finish shows light surface erosion on the barrel, which will likely improve with some steel wool and elbow grease. The receiver is a plum color with wear and discoloration on the rails and the bolt.
The Screw heads are sharp. The markings are clear. Overall, this gun rates in about Very Good condition. Mechanics: The action functions correctly. We did not fire this rifle. The bolt stop pin is missing. There is no magazine provided.
Box, Paperwork & Accessories: None Our Assessment: This carbine was produced by National Ordinance and sold under the name Alpine. At some point the principals of National Ordnance separated and each produced carbines under the names “National Ordinance”, and “Alpine” respectively. If you Google “Alpine M1 Carbine” you will read a fascinating story.
This particular rifle is a clone of the famous WWII carbine and will make a fun shooter. Carbine prices have sky rocketed because of their lack of DCM availability.
If you want an affordable one, but this one. If you want a collector, prepare to spend more this year than ever before. CA Legal or CA Private Party Transferable: This rifle can be transferred in California. LSB#: 120405CJ01 Make: Alpine/National Ordinance Model: M1 Carbine Serial Number: 300849 Year of Manufacture: Early To Mid 1960s, But We Cannot Date this Car. Shipping: UPS Insured shipping will cost $30.
To reduce the likelihood of damage during shipping, we may disassemble long guns by removing stocks when it is possible & easy and will not damage the wood or screws. We will also break down takedowns. We have had problems with rough carrier handling breaking the stocks at the wrist, and since we have begun to disassemble, we have not had any breakage.
All parts will be individually wrapped. If you would prefer to not have your item disassembled, please let us know as soon as you win the bid.
Your item will be shipped within 1 week of receipt of good funds, usually the next day. You will receive an automatic notification with a tracking number upon shipment, to let you know that we have received funds. If you are in Southern California, you are welcome to pick your item up and complete the transfer at our shop in Simi Valley (M-F, 8-5). This gun can only be shipped to an FFL, and it will be shipped from an FFL. It is your responsibility to ensure that the gun is legal to own and receive in your area.
Please include a copy of your dealer’s license with payment. We will need CFLC numbers for CA FFL’s to ship a firearm within California. We are FFL dealers and comply with all Federal, State and Local laws.
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If you would like to be notified when we receive your payment, please obtain a tracking number from your carrier. We receive about 40 checks a day and do not have the staff required to email everyone when we receive checks. CA Sales tax applies to CA buyers (7.25%). Layaways are offered on all items, requiring a 20% non refundable down payment within 7 days of the auction’s close and the balance within 60 days. We do not require prior notice to place an item on the layaway.
No returns are accepted on layaway items and the item will be considered abandoned after 60 days. Successful Bidder Instructions: You will be invoiced by the morning following the sale. This invoice will include totals for the sale and all instructions. If you win an item and are not willing or able to complete the sale, you will be liable for 5% of the sale price. Returns (less shipping) are accepted within 3 days of when the item is delivered with signature confirmation. Returns are very costly for both the buyer and for us, so please ask all of your questions before bidding and please be sure you can legally purchase this item.
Please leave feedback when the gun is happily received, we will leave feedback in return. If you are not satisfied, for any reason, please contact us before leaving negative or neutral feedback. (805) 285-0715 No gun should be fired without being examined by a competent gunsmith.
National Ordnance appeared about the time the government was getting rid of 03A3 parts by the trailer load. They had slightly over-manufactured during WWII and you could buy an 03A3 less the receiver for about $29 on the retail market in the 60's. Problem was you could buy the whole rifle for $39 and nobody had any receivers. National Ordnance had these receivers fabricated in Spain and they are very close to the originals except they are NOT forged as the original, so everyone assumes they are junk.
Which they may very well be except no one can find one that has failed as a result of shooting. I've been watching a good many forums for the last seven years and never seen a report of such a failure. Please, if someone has such a report, please post it. The receivers are rough and pockmarked. National Ordnance was a predecessor to Federal Ordnance I believe. Both were located in El Monte, California and Federal followed National's closing. I recently saw a collector who listed his 03's and 03A3's and included as part of his grouping of firearms a National rifle.
Some buy them and cut them up for parts, which seems a little much, but it's your to do with as you please. If I could get one cheap enough, I would put it in with my Springfields and call if what it is.a clone like the SA, Inc., Polytech or LRB copies of the M14. They just make a more politically correct rifle than NO did in the 60's and, thus, get a lot more money for essentially the same kind of rifle. I've been away from this forum a while and just found this thread. I have a National Ordnance 1903a3.
I had an interesting time fixing mine up. Saw it at the pawn shop for $180 and they wouldn't budge on price. Stock was a scant type with ugly varnish and a painted black handguard.
Bore looked good, headspace was OK (I brought gauges),action was fulll of sand, finish was ugly. Bought a 1917 Enfield instead for $220. Came back later that week and they had a clearance sale. I bought it for $115.
Took it home and cleaned it up. It had been fired with loose action screws so the receiver came back and cracked the wood. Fixed that with epoxy and refinished the stock and the repair is almost unoticeable. The black handguard turned out to be a plastic molded one that was cracked under the rear band. Threw it away and got a real one. The rear sight was incorrect and I tossed it and installed a correct 'A3 sight. Then the trouble: when looking into the bore it was fine except I hadn't looked close at the muzzle and I didn't check a gauge before buying it.
The muzzle swallowed my gauge and actually miked about.320' because the bore was buldged the last inch. Counterbored with muzzle with cheap tools. Mine may have been assembled with the bottom of the barrel parts. Refinished the metal to pass some time. Took it to the range and it shot 5 rounds into 1.25' at 100 yards with CMP M2 ball.
Rifle shoots great and I only had to put another $40 into it. It doesn't have the collectors value of a REAL 1903a3 but it works fine. I have seen reports on another forum of a guy that had gathered info on 2 or 3 that had broken receivers. Another person has commented that the 1903a4 in Saving Private Ryan was possibly a National Ordnance.
I have seen these rifles in nice shape sell for $180 one week and $325 another weekon the online auctinosites. $500 is way to steep for a copy when you can find the real thing for that price if you look around long enough.
Sorry for the post to be so long but this rifle was one of my funnest projects and with great results. I have had several National Ordinance firearms back in the 70's when I didn't know the difference between a USGI or a copy. They were cheap about $25-$75. I had a carbine that seldom worked and a 03A3 that seemed very roughly manufactured. Compared to a USGI carbines and real 03A3s they were borderline crap. I had a friend that bought one about 15 years ago and paid what a real 03A3 would have cost.
After I showed him what it really was he tried to sell it at a gunshow. I'll be damned if he didn't sell it and actually make a few bucks. I guess that there is a sucker born every minute. I gotta agree with Garandgary.
They were poorly fabricated. My recollection is a guy had one let go in South Carolina in late 60s/early 70s. Don't remember the exact details but I clearly remember they had a bad reputation in the South in those days. So did their carbines and I had one of them and dumped it. It was given to me out of an estate of a friend that died and I dumped it after shooting it a few rounds and the cases had very bad case swell so bad the cases would jam going into RCBS dies (two sets). At one time in my life I did business with National Ordnance and used their products. There were two businesses, same location, two buildings.
Federal Ordnance and National Ordnance, the first was the parts and ammo dept. And the second was complete firearms and receivers. Ordnance was owned by a man by the name of John Arnold, I knew him slightly, just enough to say hello when I went to his businesses, At the time I was doing business with Nat Ord, I remember being told the receiver casting was being done by ‘River Casting’ here in US.
Many years later, Lee Emerson told me that Karl Mauntz told him, that Rimer Casting of Waterville, OH, had made the Nat.Ord. M1903A3s and in fact made all of Nat.Ord’s receiver castings.
I saw a posting on another board, where an individual stated his father (tool & die man) had made from a DCM A3 the pilot/model that was supplied to Rimer in order to make the mould. Rimer Casting is still in busness, in same location, but now known as Rimer Enterprises Inc. The only person I know of who could give the full story of Nat.Ord/Fed Ord is a man by the name of Wyant Lamont Jr., if he is still alive. He was the plant manager/foreman type person for Nat/Fed Ord.
This Federal Ordnance is not the business with the same name that opened up a few years later and made M14 type receivers, I do not think he even had to buy the name. Supposelly H.P. White gave a glowing report of the Nat. Ord M1903A3s but I have never been able to find it. I have looked thru the ARs from 1960 to 1970, and found nothing, It may have been published in ‘Guns & Ammo’, in their Ordnance Department section. For those of you who do not know, H.P.White Lab was an independent, recognized, Ballistic Lab (maybe still is) and if they said a firearms was safe, it was. That is not to say that all the rest of that factory’s production was safe, but if they said a firearm they tested was safe, it was.
I can not say these receivers are so unsafe as to preclude firing. I also, have people who tell me they ‘blew-up’ their Nat.Ord.A3, and of course, always with factory loads. But none of these people could supply any remnants of the offending case. No documentation except “they said/he said”. I fired many rounds out of these rifles with no safety issues, functioning problems, now that is another story I was assembling Nat. A3s,(total ended up being 2 or 3 hundred). Using new (mostly) parts, early 60s to mid-60s.
I did not own the receivers or parts, but did the work for others; I usually drove over to LA and pick up the receivers with other stuff. My experiences with Nat.Ord. A3 receivers, is very similar to Jim Keenan’s. Machining errors were common, guard screws holes were especially a problem, I chased the threads that could be saved, with a metric 6.35mm x 1 tap. For those I couldn’t, I re-tapped with a 7mm x 1 tap.
I also made a tap for the barrel threads. But the most interesting problem was those were the center line of the bore did not come close to the receiver’s bolt hole center line. A warning for those of you who buy a National Ordnance M1903A3 for the parts. Some, may have been altered to get the rifle to function (‘cocking piece’/sear) but the biggest problem is the barrel, when tightened, it would turn up almost anywhere. Usually I turned the barrel’s shoulders back, until front sight was straight up when tighten. This of course will present problems if this altered barrel is installed on a GI receiver. Most needed finish reaming.
If you can buy an assembled, functioning, Nat.Ord.A3 for around $200 it would a great shooter, but check it close. Rick You are right of course, I really do not keep track of prices any more.
During the 60s and 70s I was involved in several ‘projects’ to rebuild/assemble 03 type rifles. Some I did from start to finish, on some, I trained others to do most of the assembly, I fitted all barrels, made sure headspace was correct, did a function test a final inspection, and no, I did not stamp them with anything. Most were ‘made for’ US Gov. M1903, A3 and a few 4s, but some were assembled using the commercial cast receiver. All rifles were test fired with five rounds, out of curiosity I fired several of the cast receive A3s using a rest.
I found that most grouped surprisingly well. Most of these projects used new M1903A3 stocks, although some people supplied used stocks, At least one gentleman had a nice supply of new C stocks that were used on M1903s only.
Most likely post 1940 production, but I do not remember, (most likely I did not know difference at the time). All most all stocks were given a raw linseed oil treatment ranging from 24 hrs soak in warm oil to slop some on with a brush, (I did no stock work other than adjustments to bedding). One business used diesel oil on the stocks!!! This business also made handgun holsters and they also used diesel to oil the leather. Most of these M1903s went to local hardware, and sporting good stores, Western Auto also received a fair number of these rifles. Even Sears and Macgomery Ward sold surplus rifles.
At least one group of 03A3s were exported to the Mexican Government. If I remember correctly these, 03A3s for Mexico, used the cast receivers. With these 03A3 went a supply of US Gov printed FM 23-10s in Spanish, wish I had kept one.